curry-oil-king
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![[*]](./images/onepoint9/default_icon.gif) posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:10 PM |
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does this bio look right ?
I'm still new to water washing so please bear with me,
started another 130 L batch ,passed 27/3 test ,drained glyc,heated and bubbled over night to de-meth ,mist washed for 12 hours yesterday periodically
draining the water ,started mist washing again this morning ,but this time with the bubbler on low ,I kind of think this bio doesn't look right ?, or
is it and i just need to keep it all going ?
Jerry
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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Bionoob
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:13 PM |
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Looks like chicken soup to me. Some what emulsified? What was the water you drained off looking like? How much have you used?
If at first you don't succeed ... so much for hand-gliding.
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scottydog
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:13 PM |
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looks like an emulsion has occured
Car.1997 Mitsubishi Delicia 2.8 Jasper on 100% Bio, WVO summer.
Processor homemade GL based unit.
Bike. 1984 Honda Magna VF700 cruiser.Wish it ran on bio!
37ft X 12ft Static Caravan
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RichardP
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:16 PM |
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I wouldn't bubble and mist at the same time, do one or the other. It does look a bit milky, turn the bubbler and mister off, take a sample in a jar
and let it all settle for an hour and see if it splits ok.
If you're misting you could do with setting up a never overflowing system of sorts so it's a steady process.
2003 Passat 130 TDi PD & 2002 Peugeot 206 1.4HDi both on B100
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:23 PM |
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ok ,so how do i get round this ! ,its the secong batch that's now emulsified ,now switched everthing off.
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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RichardP
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:28 PM |
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When you start misting, roughly what sort of flow are you doing it with in litres per hour?
What sort of misting nozzle do you have?
2003 Passat 130 TDi PD & 2002 Peugeot 206 1.4HDi both on B100
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:41 PM |
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misting nozzle's off a plant sprayer ,about 18" above the bio , sorry no idea of the flow rate,the first two batch's i water washed were fine the last
one and now this one have emulsifed, prior to this ive always dry washed through ecopure ,i started water washing to hopefully increase the life of
the media.
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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Bionoob
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:49 PM |
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a few ways to break an emulsion if I remember rightly. You can reheat and mix in the glycerol and allow to settle again. I used to water wash (now I
just settle...ah bliss) and was to vigorous in my washing creating an emulsion. I broke those up initially using vinegar from the kitchen. The acid
does the job and helped a lot.
If at first you don't succeed ... so much for hand-gliding.
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 04:55 PM |
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so if i reheat it ,what temp 55-63 deg ? and intoduce the glyc back in , how long do i mix for ? ,then what ?, sorry if i appear dim ,i'm not used to
this water washing malarky, thanks for the help guys ,i feel another donation coming on 
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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mark
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 09:45 PM |
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Heat to 60c, mix for 1 hour, settle for 1 to 2 hours then drain glycerol.
do this with a test batch (1L pop bottle) first to see how you go.
Cit Xantia 1.9td VSX Athena estate (Bosch)
wife's pug 406 2.1 TD GLX estate with Bosch convertion
GL eco with eductor, squirrel, quad core condenser + HE, 180ltr batches
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ells1604
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| posted on 5-9-2010 at 11:54 PM |
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hi, i newish to water washing to,when i mist my bio looks simular to yours at the start and then starts to go a darker colour after a few more hours
of misting (never overflowing set up) may be you could get away with abit more misting,
but take a sample of the wash water to make sure no bio settles out of it.
mark
2001 vw bora 1.9tdi
2003 seat toledo 1.9tdi
180l GL processor
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 10:10 AM |
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ells1604 ,what do you use use for a mister ,i can't seem to find one thats give a fine enough mist ,i'm currently using one off a plant sprayer,its
fine but obviously not fine enough, as this is the second time ive had an emulsion in 4 batchs,i cant do a "never overflowing" set up due to the
location of my plant (its in a seperate outbuilding with no drain)
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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RichardP
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 10:41 AM |
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If you treat it gently when starting with the misting then you shouldn't get an emulsion. You'll get an emulsion when you've been a bit too aggressive
before most of the soap is out.
Like Mark says, take a sample or three and try various methods to sort it out. Heat and settle, heat and add glyc back in, try some with vinegar of
salt water. Something will work with it.
2003 Passat 130 TDi PD & 2002 Peugeot 206 1.4HDi both on B100
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billythesquid
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 11:39 AM |
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if you heat that static it will return to orange
i would mist about 50 liters through slowly before bubbling and one use one method at a time
Tony
2000 Mercedes A170 on B100 NOW ON SINGLE TANK
99 Vauxhall astra van 2.0 tdi poorly at the moment FIXED B100 SINGLE TANK
Thanks to members of this forum im now producing good quility biodiesel single tank traveling accross europe
NOW ALL I NEED IS A RELIABLE REASONABLE OIL SOURCE
gl style system
MY ADVICE GET ON BIO!!!!!!!
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 04:59 PM |
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ok here's an update,after heating the soup up last night i mixed in the previously drained glyc ,mixed for 1.5 hours and then left it overnight,this
morning i drained all the glyc out,switched on the heater and got it very hot,bubbled for 3 hours just to remove any remaining methanol,i then VERY
gently added about 20 L water and set the bubbler on very low,(i went to the aquarium shop and got two adjustable clamps to restict air flow),i
bubbled for 30mins,let it settle for an hour,then drained the water, then repeated the water procedure all over again,then again, but this time i'm
bubbling for an hour with the heater back on, think i'm getting there as the bio is now brown in colour not yellow like it was.
Jerry
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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mark
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 05:16 PM |
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Sounds like it's heading in the right direction 
Cit Xantia 1.9td VSX Athena estate (Bosch)
wife's pug 406 2.1 TD GLX estate with Bosch convertion
GL eco with eductor, squirrel, quad core condenser + HE, 180ltr batches
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NigelB
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 07:26 PM |
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You're definately getting there now Jerry. Gentle bubbling for the first few washes and increase it gradually. I wouldn't use any heat on it until the
final wash. Could be seen as a waste of energy.
Perhapes your mister is too close to the bio or the flow rate is too high. Something for one of the experienced mist washers to comment on.
Nige
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RichardP
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 07:42 PM |
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My mister runs at about 10-12 l/h and does give a very fine mist and is about 12" above the bio. I'll generally mist mine until it's running pretty
clear then give a hard bubble for 30mins then settle and dry it, never had a problem or come near an emulsion.
Just needed to add that what you have in the pics looks like what first comes out of my wash tank when misting it, and that's taking some glyc with
it. If you mist it with no agitation then all the crap will fall to the bottom for draining.
[Edited on 6-9-2010 by RichardP]
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 08:15 PM |
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my theory behind heating it was ,to hopefull get the soap to drop quicker,
as for the mister,i'm struggling to find anything fine enough
anybody recommend a decent misting unit ?
going out to drain the water at 9 ,then going to add more water and gently bubble it overnight ,
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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RichardP
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 08:31 PM |
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Once you've got water in there for washing then heating it up won't help drop the soap out like demething and settling does.
If I was you I'd put in about 25-30l of water, gently bubble it for an hour or two, settle for an hour, drain then repaet until the water is coming
clean.
It's like doing a big shake up soap test, but gentler, and it's pretty unusual to get an emulsion doing a shake up test.
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CanidrivE
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| posted on 6-9-2010 at 08:32 PM |
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The wash water you are removing, if its clear, stop mist washing / washing.
Now bubble over night, with your bubble stone say 6inch from the bottom,
Have the heater come on for about 75 mins, just to bring it up to 50 deg C
Keep the bubbler going with out adding any more water all day. But do drain off water that will drop out.
Now repeat the above yes bubble for a second night and day, only this time have your bubble stone at the bottom and turn "if you can" full up to
really vibrate the water
So now after two days you should have clear biodiesel that will pass 50 / 50 water test
It took my 50ltr reactor 1 night day to clear
It takes my 200ltr 3 nights and days to clear
There for you are in the middle
Hope this helps
And yes that is the colour bio goes via a water wash,, You did test the PH?
Dave
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ells1604
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| posted on 7-9-2010 at 12:00 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by curry-oil-king
ells1604 ,what do you use use for a mister ,i can't seem to find one thats give a fine enough mist ,i'm currently using one off a plant sprayer,its
fine but obviously not fine enough, as this is the second time ive had an emulsion in 4 batchs,i cant do a "never overflowing" set up due to the
location of my plant (its in a seperate outbuilding with no drain) |
i,m also using the nozzles of garden sprayers.( £1.99 for 2L pump up spray bottle) they have the brass end and give out a very fine mist,
if you want to u2u your address i'll post you one to try to see if its any better
also if you could get some kind of hose to run to a drain and set up never over flowing tank it will save alot of your time.
i only mist no bubbling and always get crystal clear water in the 50/50 test. (could never get it as clear when demething and settling even though the
bio always looked as good and clear)
Mark
2001 vw bora 1.9tdi
2003 seat toledo 1.9tdi
180l GL processor
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RichardP
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| posted on 7-9-2010 at 10:44 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by curry-oil-king
my theory behind heating it was ,to hopefull get the soap to drop quicker,
as for the mister,i'm struggling to find anything fine enough
anybody recommend a decent misting unit ?
going out to drain the water at 9 ,then going to add more water and gently bubble it overnight , |
I got one of these ages ago and it does give a very fine mist.
2003 Passat 130 TDi PD & 2002 Peugeot 206 1.4HDi both on B100
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curry-oil-king
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| posted on 7-9-2010 at 11:58 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by RichardP
| Quote: | Originally posted by curry-oil-king
my theory behind heating it was ,to hopefull get the soap to drop quicker,
as for the mister,i'm struggling to find anything fine enough
anybody recommend a decent misting unit ?
going out to drain the water at 9 ,then going to add more water and gently bubble it overnight , |
I got one of these ages ago and it does give a very fine mist. |
hi,that's what i was using before i tried the nozzle off a plant sprayer,i don't know if mines faulty as is never gave out a really fine mist,if i had
the water on to fast ,it hit the bio to hard,if the water was to slow it just dribbled,the one with the plant sprayer doesn't look very fine
either,i've now had emulsions using both,i'm getting a bit fecked off with it now.
Jerry
1991 Defender 200 tdi B100 all year round
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RichardP
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| posted on 7-9-2010 at 01:42 PM |
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Jerry, sounds like you've totally lost faith with the misting, so until you get a misting head you're confident with then I'd stop misting.
You can add water (about 20%) to the bio from like a watering can without the sprinkler so it will go straight through the bio to the bottom of the
tank. Then bubble wash it gently, I use an aquarium air pump that does about 3.5 liters per minute, so it's very gentle and never caused an
emulsion.
Bubble for a couple of hours, settle for at least an hour then drain water and repeat until clear. When it's running clear heat the bio to 50 - 60c,
leave it to stand for a hour or two so alot of the water will drop out, drain that off then bubble it dry.
One other thing, I wouldn't bother demething overnight before water washing it, if you do that you may as well settle out the soaps. Water washing
will remove the meth in no time.
2003 Passat 130 TDi PD & 2002 Peugeot 206 1.4HDi both on B100
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