fred1
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![[*]](./images/onepoint9/default_icon.gif) posted on 3-12-2009 at 10:31 PM |
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Direct injection and blends?
Hello again
As far as I know virtually all car manufactures are producing cars which are direct injection.
Can anyone point me towards some research that has successfully used a blend in a direct injection engine?
Has anyone use a blend on a modern indirect engine for a lengthy period of time?
Any problems with it?
Any comments and opinions would be appreciated
Thanks
Fred
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CHUNDER
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| posted on 3-12-2009 at 11:40 PM |
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fred dont want to apear thick but blend of what bio and diesel or ????
MERC 300TD W124 SINGLE TANK WVO PLUS A BIT OF THIS AND THAT PLUS KIMBO THE JACK RUSELL SORT OF WITH THE MIND OF A ROTWILER ON SPEED
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Bottleveg
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 01:37 AM |
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I guess your talking uvo/ diesel? The jury is still out! A lot must depend on engine, time of year and how long you wish to keep the vehicle. Maybe
it’s a bit like smoking, there’s always someone who smoked 80 a day and lived till 120.
(Mark) 1998 Ford Escort 1.8TD.2nd Lucas pump. Twin tank. 100% UVO. Now sold.
1997 Astra 1.7TD Isuzu. 100% UVO. Dog rides shotgun. 1999 Merc Sprinter 310 2.9Di Twin tank 100% UVO. Dog needs a lift to get in, and ride shotgun.
WMO central heating. Lister 8/1 SOM to be run on WMO.
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knighty
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 01:41 AM |
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I've got one of the new transits (but not the brand new ones) it's direct injection and we mix in the tank.... warm it up in the morning on the way
into work, then guess how much oil we'll need and put that much in.... run it down as low as we can... then put in just enough diesel to get home
with.... works fine 
also used to do the same thing in the iveco, which is direct injection and common rail ;-)
you need to check for an in tank lift pump etc.. before you start using it.... a lot of these will die pretty quick with veg oil.... the tranist
doesen;t have one, and the one on the iveco is a big meaty one so it was ok (on a blend).... had to add an expensive gear pump when I converted it to
2 tanks 
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fred1
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 04:01 AM |
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Hi
What type of blend?
Well I use 80% veg 10% petrol 10% diesel, byt thats in a Pug 406 which is indirect
Its just that at some stage I will have to change the car and I was wondering had anyone used a similar blend in a direct injected car? Possibley by
increasing the petrol % to "thin" the veg even more, making it more acceptable to a direct injection car
I know its best to twin tank these, and even then there may be problems
Thanks again
fred
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knighty
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 04:30 AM |
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well... they'll start up on about 50/50 veg/diesel.... but that was in the summer... and it was a struggle some times 
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e3msb
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 03:36 PM |
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thats a good way to run a DI on veg/bio, as the engine is hot, but for anyone else watching...cold oil on cold pistons eqauls ring gumming and
polymerised sump oil, which equals dead engine....it may take two or three thousand miles, but it will happen. Its really quite easy to fit a twin
tank system.
e3msb[steve] 96 disco 300. bio 100. Cit ZX. wvo/mix. PUG405 wvo/mix. Vintage JCB3c GT. bio. home/cent heating,wvo/glyc-oil. Linde forklift 3cyl
Deutz WVO. Petter twin diesel 7kva generator, bio and wvo. Dennis fire engine 1971. 5.8 perkins T6354 historic vehicle, bio. IF YOU HAVE GAINED
KNOWLEDGE OR BEEN AMUSED BY THE ANSWERS GIVEN PLEASE MAKE A SMALL DONATION TO THE FORUM
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fred1
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 04:23 PM |
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Hi again
I know Hans Schur's did considerable research some time ago with petrol and diesel blends. He published a table with his results, can’t find it on the
net now.
Anyway as far as I can remember all the engines where indirect.
As indirect cars/engines become less available it looks as if blending will eventually die. This will leave us all to go twin tank.
Now I’m happy to go this route, but I would really like to know scientifically that blending any combination of veg, petrol and diesel will result in
a direct engine dying.
When Hans Schur's did his research people thought that an indirect diesel engine would die
Fred
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e3msb
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 07:25 PM |
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we have had photos in the past showing gummed rings from veg abuse on direct inj engines...they will be in the search archives somewhere. I have seen
canal boat engines run on vegoil that ended up nacked cos they didnt realise they were DI. Just cos engines are old people presume that they indirect,
but even back in the 20s and 30s they made direct inj engines. I have also seen a totally destroyed transit engine that got sump glump from running on
half WVO. Having said that, guys have come on the forum and said they have done a few thousand miles with no problem, but perhaps it was the next
owners problem then. If there was no problem then I cant see that firms like elsbett with all their tech skill etc would bother with coplicated twin
tank kits if they could have made cheap single tank ones that everyone could afford.
e3msb[steve] 96 disco 300. bio 100. Cit ZX. wvo/mix. PUG405 wvo/mix. Vintage JCB3c GT. bio. home/cent heating,wvo/glyc-oil. Linde forklift 3cyl
Deutz WVO. Petter twin diesel 7kva generator, bio and wvo. Dennis fire engine 1971. 5.8 perkins T6354 historic vehicle, bio. IF YOU HAVE GAINED
KNOWLEDGE OR BEEN AMUSED BY THE ANSWERS GIVEN PLEASE MAKE A SMALL DONATION TO THE FORUM
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fred1
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| posted on 4-12-2009 at 08:01 PM |
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Steve
Playing devils advocate here.
It’s not in Elsbett interest to promote single tank blending
What’s needed are some scientific experiments on real road cars, the type we use every day, that are direct injection
Things like using different injectors, mixing with 20% diesel, adding efficient heat exchangers would all help.
Probably a pipe dream, as it would cost a fortune.
As I have said before, are we all destined to drive old cars or have twin tanks?
I know there is the bio diesel option, but I just don’t like mixing “dangerous chemicals”
fred
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jhanananda
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| posted on 5-12-2009 at 02:26 AM |
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Fred, there seems to be a lot of concern about running blends on a Direct Injected engine; however, I see no reason why the method would not work, but
DI engines might be a bit more touchy than Indirect Injected diesel engines. The trick is to figure it out on an older engine, then tweak it for a
newer engine. A 50/50 blend of VO and diesel is not a well honed blend strategy that is likely to work on a DI engine. On the other hand I would
think a 70-80% VO to 20-30% Petrol blend would most probably work just fine. Here are some dialogs on the subject that I found on other forums:
VW TDI blenders
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/6421006552
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/2891071942
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/8671023781
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/7981000912
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/8361069612
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9751014871/m/5741019212
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fred1
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| posted on 5-12-2009 at 04:25 AM |
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Above links dont seem to work
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jhanananda
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| posted on 5-12-2009 at 03:43 PM |
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Gee, if the above links do not work, is it worth considering that the moderators of the BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS at infopop might have
deleted them? If so, can anyone think why they would do that? Did someone up thread suggest that blending does not receive the same kind of support
as other biofuels strategies because none of the moderators of the various biofuels forums make anything off the method? And, is it the same reason
why I have been banned from most of the biofuels forums? And, we could even consider it is the same reason why blending does not enjoy its own forum
here but is buried under SVO. But, I guess we should not push the limit of the generosity of the moderators here, but it seems like an interesting
series of questions we can all ask ourselves without needing an answer. But, if you want unbiased dialog on blending theory you might want to join
the only forum where blending biofuels is the theme.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/veggie_fuel_blennders/
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